This is a bit off-topic, but I had to report this conversation as it has been disturbing me for the past 24 hours. It took place inside my booth at the Dupont Circle FreshFarm Market yesterday morning as I stood at my table fielding gardening questions and signing up subscribers. A few youngish gentleman began to gather in the booth and stood just one foot behind me talking about the usual Sunday morning matters. I ignored them wondering a bit why they could not move their group elsewhere, but not minding enough to ask them to leave as this "guest-at-market" booth spot is clearly a gathering spot for pre- and post-market socializing. Than my ears pricked up when I heard, "Yeah, there is just no glamour here. That is the difference between girls here and in New York." The others concurred -- shaking their heads in disappointment and scanning the surrounding crowds in obvious disdain. I whipped around then and gave them "the Look" that said stop now or fear for your lives - yet the conversation continued! They said, "You know this city is filled with the high school valedictorians, while New York has the girls voted "most popular." They sighed at their lack of fortune at this local dating pool then mercifully moved on.I'm not saying they are wrong, per se. There IS a difference not just in the girls' attitudes and fashions here, but also in the boys as well. When I go to concerts or clubbing in New York or Philly, there is a big difference in the number of eligible, attractive young men to choose from. Yet, when you actually get a chance to chat with them, you get the immediate impression that the pretty gift wrap contains an empty box. Still I was annoyed at many levels later on when I got home and had time to mull this conversation over.
First, these are the types of thoughts you share in private, on a blog rant, or keep to yourself. You do not have them within earshot or in the personal space of the subjects of your talk.
Second, why is glamorous better or more valued than being ultra-smart? No, they did not actually say DC girls are "ugly," but it was definitely the implication that they are generally dowdy and drab. Should we be spending more time dolling ourselves up early on a Sunday morning to make a quick dash to the local farmer's market? Is this really how we should be spending our busy lives - preoccupied with how we look at every second of the day? I'd personally rather have those smart girls devoting their downtime thoughts to how we can solve world hunger and global warming than to what high heels will hurt the least and look the best on their five block walk to the market and back.
Third, is it really right to judge all DC females by the selection at this time and location? I'm thinking these young men need to broaden out from a known gay-neighborhood. And the timing is not really optimal. Normally, I'd be in church -- where the fashions are more on the dressy side and we are all a bit more groomed for the day -- therefore, perhaps a bit easier on the eyes than those who just rolled out of bed, grabbed a basket, and headed over for some cucumbers and peaches.
I'm curious to here other's takes on this -- should I have been offended by this chat? Is it normal guy talk? Do you agree with their assessment of the local scene?
I find it neccessary to point out that the majority of the guys in DC aren't all that either. So why average looking dudes who consider Dockers to be the epitome of fashion should get to date hot babes is beyond me. Moreover, the reason why said dudes aren't dating is clearly illustrated by their sparkling personalities. Clearly the women in DC simply aren't good enough. [/close sarcasm font].
ReplyDeleteShould you be offended? I'd say the opposite, if you consider the source. Pity the poor girls these doofuses do find attractive. Those gals have to put up with what these charm-free specimens probably consider witty pick-up lines. And they're probably in shoes that pinch their toes, too. Poor things.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, that is pretty normal "guy talk", for some guys. In college, I worked in a stock room with a bunch of guys who'd forget I wasn't one. I can't count the number of times my eyebrows went to the top of my forehead listening to them.
Julie B.
Two points:
ReplyDeleteOne, they have a point.
Two, screw them.
DC is a conservative town...for both men and women. Glamour is a high ranking staffer on key committee. Glamour there is an actor who's getting noticed by top producers and directors. Both men and women here could use a bit more pizazz at times. Including the boneheads you overheard.
The Washington "empty suits," which match their empty minds, are truly pathetic. It's safe for them to sigh over the sharp New York gals who would never give them the time of day. Also, they think it gives them some sort of cachet, that they are discerning, have the best taste possible. In reality, the right word for them is the one I used above -- pathetic! I spent time in New York when I was in high school. These guys never left high school!
ReplyDeleteHey Pretty said exactly what I was thinking. My guess is these guys can't get a girl in DC and that's why they complain and want the empty box.
ReplyDeleteGood points all! I guess no guys are going to weigh in to defend them - LOL. Well, I'm so over it now - on to the more important questions of when I should give in and buy the 4 for $12 mums at Whole Foods and if I should rely on Thursday's rain forecast.
ReplyDeleteDC and NYC are just apples and oranges...not better or worse just different...and it is entirely possible that those goofs just dont know where to look!
ReplyDeletexoxo
I dunno. I'm a single guy here in DC and I think there are a lot of attractive women here. Made all the more attractive by the fact that they're smart. In most cases, smarter than me.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised that you seem to have been both surprised and upset by their comments.
ReplyDeleteAs you noted, their assessment is more than likely correct (in general), in that it's true that New York is where the fashion industry is based (and where more of the models for said industry live), but really, if that is all they value, then who cares what they think?
Yes, it's just a random sample of two guys and their opinions, but surely it's not the first time you've heard those types of comments before?
I'm not even worried about what ignorant guys say. Yeah, NYC tends to be more "trendier," but I do see the same Paris Hilton types flocking about Georgetown like I see in my visits to NYC. Just like the same types of suits on K Street here one would see heading to Wall Street in NYC.
ReplyDeleteThose guys were definitely a bunch of punks to stand there and say that stuff within earshot. As long as YOU know you're not a vapid, shallow airhead (I'm sure that's the type those guys are looking for) and know you've got a lot going for you, then don't take what they say to heart.
*ears perk up at Blog Prince's declaration that he's a single guy, for GreenCanary didn't know any existed in D.C.*
ReplyDeleteYep, there are single guys in the DC area. Problem is, this is a tricky topic for us to respond to. How to reply without coming off as patronizing?
ReplyDeleteHave I heard guys make comments like that? Yes. Never heard anyone complain about fashion sense, but yes, I've heard similar shallow comments. Worse, at some point in my life I've probably made them too.
Are they typical remarks for a guy? No, or at least, I don't think so. Like Julie B said, it depends on the guy. Hopefully such comments become less common with maturity.
Of course, it's also worth noting that this is one of those things that cuts both ways. I've had plenty of experience with women suddenly losing interest in me and giving all their attention to the guy with the expensive clothes and fancy (expensive) car.
Sad but true. . . D.C. is Hollywood for ugly people. However, being a native, I appreciate intelligent women. It's far easier to change an outfit than an attitude or an I.Q.
ReplyDeleteI have heard guys talk like that, but my girlfriends have shared similar sentiments with me. When you're making comparisons, it's so easy to see what you want to see--and those guys aren't taking advantage of the fine women this area has to offer. I doubt if any of those NY dolls would so much as come within 300 feet of those guys without assessing the size of their wallets (thankfully, not their brains). Great job of pointing out that their Sun. morning location wasn't exactly one for prime-picking of da womenz.
ReplyDeleteDC is a really unattractive city.
ReplyDeleteOther cities I think the fashion is more up to date and required since being a government city most can't afford better stuff.
This is why people say the women/men are ugly I think.
I lived in suburban NoVa for 8 years while I worked on Capitol Hill. Actually, I found DC is really full of attractive people -- but not in the flashy, Hollywood sense. Basically what you have in DC is a lot of the "cream of the crop", the "best and the brightest" from all over the country descending here... ambitious, usually academic high-achievers, the "president of the student body" and valedictorian types. This doesn't necessarily mean these kids are ugly; many are the kind who were voted "Most Popular" in high school or college... But in DC you also have this countervailing trend where many young women become hardcore feminists -- young women who are highly ambitious and engrossed in their careers. While they may actually be sexually promiscuous, they're also highly selective and generally "date up", looking for the best-looking and best-connected guys. This results in a situation where maybe 20% of the young men are bedding 80% of the attractive or semi-attractive young women. A necessary corollary of this is that 80% of men are having very little sex, and find dating a huge struggle. Because of this, I think many young men in DC just adopt a "sour grapes" attitude -- secretly resentful of the 20% of "hot" guys who are getting all that action, and caustically dismissive of DC women. I guess that easily translates, then, into an attitude that just says "DC girls are ugly". They're really not... what they are is, generally, unapproachable, if you're anything but a "hot" or very well-connected guy! (by Joe T., former DC-area resident)
ReplyDeleteCA commented to me off-blog:
ReplyDelete>>I do have one comment to make concerning Washington D.C. MEN - where are they? (this is my rebuttal to the dweebs dissing Washington DC women)
I see lots of short guys in suits trying to look very capital hill-ish. ...like working for some slime -belly senator is cool?
I have seen the I-am-dressed-in-the-most-radical-fashion-and-therefore-I-am cool type. Hello, is anyone in there?
Real men seem to abound in the west - not California - I mean Wyoming, Nevada, etc. Where the biceps swell from real work, not a machine. I even find some possibly good examples in Western Maryland and other farming areas. Lots of our generation farmers have degrees, even MBA's. Eking profit from the ground takes brains, savvy, and muscle!<<
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ReplyDeleteI am from NYC and I currently live in Cheyenne Wyoming where the only things that bulge are the big beer guts. I am an attractive, college educated NY girl who takes care of herself through exercise and proper diet. Men here are used to they types of women who look like the livestock that they tend to. It seems like being an attractive woman is a crime here and I am not the only one to say it. I have come across Califoria women and women from other big cities who have the same problems here with women. I can handle myself and women here know not to mess with me. If you like chain smoking, alcoholic women who are overweight or look like they are hooked on meth, Cheyenne is the place for you. What men consider attractive here is not what men in NYC would touch with a ten foot pole, Cheyenne is also not where you will find many educated people.
ReplyDeleteAll of the NYC women I know are all educated and have careers not jobs at the local Target or Walmart. I have my own like all of my girlfriends, and we do not need men to take care of us like most midwestern farm women do. We do not need to look at the size of a mans wallet, we have it like that and men know what they like and what they want in a woman.
ReplyDeleteAnother explanation seems not at all based on NYC or DC stereotypes. I saw a post on theissue.com today about an international study that people perceive scarcity for desired objects, because we believe what we want is unlikely to be found.
ReplyDeleteAs part of the study, men and women looked at photographs, and when asked later, each gender reported that they thought there were fewer attractive members of the opposite sex. Apparently some sort of cognitive function causes us to perceive objects of desire as rare. The story posted at http://theissue.com/inreader.php?inreaderpage=botbinreader&page=www.psychologicalscience.org%2Fonlyhuman%2Findex.cfm&storyid=7731 for now, on a blog called We're Only Human. Looks the guys at the farmer's market were probably making geographic generalizations (as stupid as they sound) as a result of ingrained cognitive function.
I don’t understand why you would be so offended. Nobody actually said that “glamorous is better than being ultra smart”. I’m sure that somewhere in NY there is a group of guys making a similar comment about the average intelligence level of women in the city. They simply stated a fact. Any heterosexual male who has had the opportunity to travel knows that DC simply doesn’t stack up. Washington DC has plenty to offer but attractive women is just not one of them. There are plenty of exceptions to the rule but on average this area is plagued with unattractive women. Nobody is calling YOU ugly and I’m sorry if it offends you but its fact.
ReplyDeletewhy can't you be glamorous and ultra smart? im a woman and lets face it, the guys weren't being aholes but were speaking the truth. DC is dowdy and often homely and this goes for the men as well as women. i don't see why people get so offended by the truth. its rare to be uber smart and uber pretty/stylish so of course DC has more smart women and thus very few of the later. Further, if a city is not fashionable, it wont attract fashionable people and will tend to attract people who aren't interested in that stuff. I love fashion and for that reason, I really would not feel comfortable in such a generally style deprived city
ReplyDeleteNice blog with a lot of great posts..really a nice post
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ReplyDeleteThe DC woman is beautiful! We are simple, natural and intelligents. We don't care the a man opinion!
ReplyDeleteI could deal with not glamourous. In my opinion, the girls her are just no fun.
ReplyDeleteWomen and men are not hot in the D.C. area! Most of the local women lack proper hair styles to match their face shape. Yes, extremely short shorts with chubby legs and no underwear, is not pretty.
ReplyDeleteMany DC area people seemingly take personal offense to EVERYTHING. This is one more example. Were they talking to you? No. Were they talking about YOU personally? No. Get over your insecure self. Typical DC person....ME ME ME
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm not a "typical guy," but I found this post after I googled, "Why are there so many attractive women in DC?" I guess I'm more attracted to women with inner beauty-- character, drive, and grace. I see a lot more of that here than I'm used to.
ReplyDeleteNice Blog, girls should not be judged like this.
ReplyDeleteNice to read your article! I am looking forward to sharing your adventures and experiences.
ReplyDeleteJohnny Cassell Ltd